Congrats to the Champs

Warren · **Joined:** Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:02 pm **Posts:** 361

sid wrote:

Just some post-video comments on that LM situation - for anyone who saw the webisode, I was indeed confused. However, it makes sense to me now and I actually think what Bruce did was fine. And here's why:

If I understand the rules correctly (which isn't a given and I'm sure Warren will correct me if I'm wrong, but....) on any INITIAL START the leader starts the race at any point between the red stripe on the wall in turn 4 to the white stripe on the track right out of turn 4. On any RESTART, those same rules apply but now the box is between the black stripe on the wall in the center of the turn and the red stripe in turn 4. If the leader chooses not to accelerate within that box, then either car on the front row can go on a restart once the get to the red stripe - which is what Bruce did.

If you look at Staskowski's hand gestures in the clip, it looks like he's telling Bruce the RESTART box is between the black stripe and that line at the beginning of the front stretch and then Bruce uses hand gestures to basically explain what I did in the last paragraph. I kept Rich's comments and the fan reaction in the clip because whether right or wrong, it shows genuine emotions from the drivers involved & the fans which is what we want in our webisodes.

Webisode is here if ya need a second look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIj6jotOgQA

I haven't watched your vid yet but that makes alot of sense and it is the rule. We've caught people napping on restarts not knowing the rule twice in heat races this year when we were second. If the leader touches the line on the back side of whatever box the green flag should be waving. Alot of guys try to drive passed the line to get the car straighter out of the turn on restarts.

Good driver call, good spotter call knowing the rules. 8-)

fastang · **Joined:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:04 pm **Posts:** 30

Sorry Shadow but this is the rule directly from the website. I also understand that over the last couple years they have changed this several different times. Use to be small box for initial start and larger box for restarts.

1.5.6 Green Flag (Start of Race)
At the beginning of each race, (initial start) when the green flag is waved by the flagman, cars must maintain position as designated by the current line-up until they have crossed the start/finish line. There is no passing before the start/finish line. On restarts, there is no passing until the green flag is waved. Waterford Speedbowl Officials may use their discretion to modify the restarts as required. In all races, each car must remain in assigned starting position until the green flag is displayed for any and all starts and restarts. If the Race Director deems the No.2 or No.3 position cars are trying to restart the race before the No. 1 car (the leader), penalties may result. The lead car must maintain pace car speed all the way down the backchute and through turns three and four prior to the green flag waving. All cars must stay in their designated lanes (inside or outside) until the green flag is waved.

shadow-13x · **Posted:** Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:26 pm

exactly how am I wrong?

initial starts are between the red line on the wall and the last black line on the wall. the leader must fire first inside that box. if he does not fire before the final line, the flagman will display the green.

restarts are from the first black line on the wall and the box ends at the red stripe. again, if the leader does not fire by the end of the box, the flagman will display the green.

LuvtheMods · **Joined:** Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:46 am **Posts:** 317

Blahh Blahh Blahh forget what the so called rule book says or doesnt say. I have been goin to the track my whole life. Some say the 2nd start was fine some say it wasnt,but IMO there should not have even been a 2nd start. The first one was fine. There was way too many questionable calls from the flag stand this year. wether it initial starts,re-starts,yellows or lack of yellows. I am not a flag man nor am i saying i could do a better job because i more than likely couldn't. But an official nascar flag man needs to be more consistant than that of which i saw this season. I know alot of people here dont care for stafford but ya know what,they have a 0 tolerance policy. you jump you go to the back. period. no 2nd chance and it dont matter who you are. From a rookie to Sir TC. To the back you go. Good or bad policy but there are alot less bad starts since they started doin it that way. Yes they do alot of things wrong but they do alot right as well.

fastang · **Joined:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:04 pm **Posts:** 30

Rule doesn't have any statements about leader starting the race and the start must be between certain colored lines. Like I said previously the rule has changed several times over the last few years. I think it has been consistant this year but why not make it very simple and only give them one box not two and make the box from a certain line to the start/finish line.

BenA · **Posted:** Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:53 pm

If theres one thing that they have been not so consistent about over the years, its been restarts. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes they make sure you don't.

Warren · **Joined:** Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:02 pm **Posts:** 361

I like the one box idea. Center of 3&4 to the end of the initial green box. I've always liked and posted this idea.

I don't like the one and done type rule. Yes you need to give the leader his shot at the lead back, you also need to let a big part of racing play out. Restarts are part of the game.

On a restart the second place car is handicapped enough by the rules. Many times the leader will slow down letting the second place car go at pace car speed and when they try to square up with the leader the leader goes. Alot of other games get played out. You need to give the second place car one free pass on restarts, let them play the game also and if they time it right, the get the good jump. Sometimes the rules have you handcuffed so much you'd rather be in 3rd place on a restart then in 2nd.

These rules have been gone over at the drivers meeting so many times this year it's hard to believe no one understands them P1 fires before P2 between the lines, if you are new here hang around after the meeting and we'll go over starts and restarts.

LuvtheMods · **Joined:** Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:46 am **Posts:** 317

yea i have mix feeling on the no 2nd chance as well as i do feel it takes a major part of true racin out of play,But it also has resulted in less bad starts and do overs. 6 of 1..1/2 dozen of the other. I also think the only reason stafford does it that way is basicaly so they dont have to deal with controversal calls such as this. Re-starts are a crucial part of the race, my problem is that it is different every time. I dont know how many times this year a start has been called back,but then later in the same darn race a start that was obviously worse but with a different set of players it was fine and dandy. Just do it fairly and the same no matter who or when or what division. Its really pretty simple if it is consistantly the same we wont be having this discussion. Heck it dont even have to be done in a possitive way. They could have the stupidest boneheaded way of doing it, but as long as its the same EVERY time. Every one will know this is how it is IDK thats just how i see it. To me its not a matter of right or wrong. Its all about consistancy and this year they just did not have any.

Steve520 · **Posted:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:59 am

fastang wrote:

Rule doesn't have any statements about leader starting the race

What part of "If the Race Director deems the No.2 or No.3 position cars are trying to restart the race before the No. 1 car (the leader)........." don't you understand? Does BEFORE need to be bolder for you. The no. 2 or 3 car must not start before the no. 1...that pretty much sums up the fact that the no. 1 must start the race.

fastang wrote:

and the start must be between certain colored lines

"Waterford Speedbowl Officials may use their discretion to modify the restarts as required." That's the rule, and the explanation to that rule is given almost every weeke(or it seems that way) in the drivers meeting. The colors are explained there.

Matt · **Posted:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:04 pm

Warren wrote:

..if you are new here hang around after the meeting and we'll go over starts and restarts.

Oh god not again! :lol:

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